Those Lowly Utes Deserve Our Pity

by heyjoe! on Nov 23, 2009 8:08 PM PST Comment 62 comments

Growing up in So Cal, I didn't know anything about the BYU-Utah rivalry until the mid 90s. It's a pretty crazy thing to step into. The thing I find funny about Utah fans in general is they pretty much define themselves by this rivalry. Most that I know don't really follow their team unless it's an undefeated BCS year, then out come the red sweaters, they hop around to Utah man and mumble the words to a song they don't know, and spit venom in the direction of BYU. It's funny, but actually pretty sad. I feel sorry for most Utah fans I know because they don't have a tradition to love. All most Ute fans have to hang their hats on is last year's Sugar Bowl. Very cool. But one year of history is a sad thing to get excited about. So why do Utes hate the Cougs so much? Here's why....

1. Who's your Coach? Ute fans are totally confused about who they love. They ran Ron McBride out of town and don't know how to feel about that. Then Urban came to town with promises and then left in lies (how many of us know Utes who follow the Gators as their adopted second team now?). Then you had to go out and hire a former Cougar to run your team. Do you love Whittingham or do you hate him? He's a Cougar leading the Utes no matter how you look at it. There's no LaVell to name your stadium after. And all Ute fans are just waiting for the day Whit leaves for bigger money and a stadium that pulls more than 35,000 bandwagoners a game.

2. It's tough to love Big Brother. And that's what BYU is and always will be to the Utes. No matter how much success the Utes have, they will always define themselves by their hatred for BYU; hence, they will never be able to exist without us. They will always wish they had the tradition, the fan base, the sellout crowds, the National title, the museum full of conference dominance hardware. You go to a BYU game and you feel the tradition. The few thousand that trickle into a Ute game because their office gave them free tickets feel something if it's a BCS season, but otherwise, they feel nothing because Big Brother has the glory. If Utah disappeared, BYU fans would still fill their stadium and soon forget the Utes. If BYU disappeared, so would half the Ute fans who didn't really follow the Utes - they just had "fun" hating the Y.

3. Where is that fan base? When so many of your fans define themselves by hatred of another school, it's tough to translate that hatred into paying for season tickets and filling the stadium. It's tough to travel more than a few thousand alumni who actually have school pride. The hater fans don't travel unless they think everyone is watching on TV and they can feel a part of the momentary glory of an undefeated season. Hater fans don't pay for season tickets because they don't really care about the "other" 12 games on the schedule. Mice Speckles Stadium is virtually empty compared to the crowds at LES. The Blackouts are cool, but half those "Utes" don't know more than 5 guys on the team.

4. Where's the tradition? Ask any Ute fan 50 and under to name 5 glorious moments in Ute history, and most will only be able to say, "2004 and the Sugar Bowl last year." And even then, they mumble 2004 because they know they went in on a rented coach who lied to the fan base and flipped them the bird for more money, and they played in the lamest BCS bowl ever against the lamest BCS team ever in Pitt. They can't even cheer for Alex Smith anymore. So, most Ute fans can only define themselves by the Sugar Bowl. And when you look at that, it's really nothing. It's one game against a team that didn't want to be there in a bowl that didn't mean anything. Even the Sugar Bowl "Champion" t-shirts don't give much credence to the word "champion." The champions of what? So, Utes basically have a One Year History. That's tradition? The Utes will ALWAYS hate BYU because of the last 30 years of conference dominance, Top 25 rankings, Heisman Trophy, National Championship, bigger crowds, sellouts, LaVell Edward's legacy, and a national fan base the Utes could only wish for. The Utes have no genuine tradition other than hating the Cougs. Sad.

So, on this rivalry week, I begin by feeling pity for the lowly Utes and their lack of tradition, honor, and pride. You have nothing to cheer for Ute fans, except Urban Meyer, your adopted Uncle, if he wins another title. Wear those Sugar Bowl Champion t-shirts one more month, because they will soon have to be retired. I hope you enjoy your time with our Cougar Son, Coach Whittingham. Each win under his guidance is really just another mark in favor of the Cougars. It took one of us to lead you to where you are. Love your Cougar coach, and treat him well until he leaves you and your traditionless program for greener pastures.

Rise and Shout!

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Wow.

That is actually a shining example of why we hate cougar fans. Not the list of things you posted, but the fact that you think that way. Your condescending arrogance is really what bothers us. Winners don’t have to act like this, and it’s even worse when losers do it.

Plus you’re wrong. First, Whitt’s been a Utah man for 15 years, he was a Cougar for 4 (3 as a player and one as a grad assistant). He’s a Utah man (just like our Prophet and First Counselor, for those of you LDS BYU fans).

Second, Utah’s goals are much higher than beating BYU. If that was all we cared about Ron McBride would still be our coach (considering he beat BYU his last year here). We’re looking for championships and BCS bowls, and we’ve reached both of those goals recently. How’s the Quest coming?

Third, Utah has the 2nd-highest attendance of any non-BCS team in the country. You’re first. Congrats. But Utah’s not exactly struggling in that department. In fact, we’ve sold out every possible season ticket for two years running (that’s 2008 before the undefeated season plus 2009 after).

Fourth, your tradition is Lavelle. 257 wins for Lavelle, 245 for every other BYU coach combined. So if you want to subtract Urban’s accomplishments or Kyle’s accomplishments, that’s fine. We’ll match coaches 2-10 against BYU’s 2-10 every day of the week.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 23, 2009 9:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not hard to have the 2nd highest attendance when you only seat 45k.

Thanks for owning something and admitting we were first.

I don’t understand what it is about Lavell that you hate? How do you make a tradition off a coach who was there for 2 and another coach who’s only been the hc for 5? Besides, he is our coach of the modern era of football. It’s not like he retired 30 years ago, It’s been in this decade. The same decade you guys claim your 04 and 08 teams.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 24, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Lavell was an incredible coach.

But you are the one saying BYU has more tradition, and it’s flat out untrue. BYU has Lavell, and he was incredible and deserves his Hall of Fame. Utah has had 10 coaches who finished with winning records (if you include Whitt), one hall of fame coach, one that coached the Giants to a Super Bowl, and two that went to BCS bowls. Lavell was a great coach, but he’s the exception, not the norm.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, the attendance numbers are not percentages.

That’s total attendance. 45,000 is the second highest total attendance among non-bcs. Wouldn’t matter if we seated 75,000 and only sat 45,000, we’d still have the second-highest attendance.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hahaha

“one that coached the Giants to the Super Bowl”…please tell me you’re not seriously going to put that feather in your cap. That same coach who had probably the most talented quarterback in the history of Utah football (Mitchell) and could do absolutely nothing with him? That guy? Please. Also, If I remember right, his last year coaching the Utes was 1989, when a guy by the name of Detmer obliterated your team, 70-31!

Vanquish the Foe, a BYU Cougars blog at SB Nation

by Layton on Nov 24, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with displacedute

Anyone heard of the 2004 Fiesta Bowl. Yes BYU has a long great history with LaVell but this decade clearly belongs to the Utes. Two undefeated seasons and the only team in ALL of college football during the BCS era. The people I know have an interest in what Urban Meye199r does, but none ‘adopted’ Florida as their second team.

Where is that fan base? When so many of your fans define themselves by hatred of another school

BYU fans are as guilty as Uta fans on that quote.

Tradition for BYU? all fans mention is the 25 year old National Title, great year but a long time ago. In 20 years the Ute Fiesta bowl will be remembered for being first non-BCS team to crash the party while historic the school should not hang their hat on that win anymore then other wins and is a similar significant accomplishment to the BYU national title.

Mountain West Connection

by Jeremy Mauss on Nov 24, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good objectivity...I appreciate it

I’m a Cougar fan and a Ute hater, but I have to admit: what the Utes have accomplished this decade is very significant. Yes, even the Sugar Bowl, because last I checked, Nick Saban was Alabama’s coach. I doubt he was OK with losing that one. Quite frankly, they probably got jobbed last year (only undefeated team + BCS bowl win). Don’t get me wrong: all these things make me hate them even more!

by NittanyCougar on Nov 24, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Same here

If I was a BYU fan and see what Utah did the past few years when the Cougs were dominated Id be upset and jealous. My brother is in the same spot as a Texas A&M fan and their program was ahead of Texas up until the late 90’s but now have fallen well off the Horns pace and are battling Baylor for the right to not be at the bottom of the Big XII South.

Mountain West Connection

by Jeremy Mauss on Nov 24, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I love how the Utes come on here and tell us what none of us have said

Please tell me you’re not going to seriously try and refute that BYU has more tradition than Utah? As a Ute fan you can not deny the list of award winners for players and coaches. Utah pales in comparison to BYU’s laundry list of history during the modern era. Utah has been more succesfull than BYU the last 5 years but that’s not tradition, that’s the present. BSU and Utah both fall into that category. Tradition has zero to do with length of time, I think you might be getting the two confused. Tradition as defined by dictionary.com is “a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting”. Your 5 years is hardly considered “long-established”.

What is Utah known for? BCS buster… and the most overrated top 2 pick in the NFL draft since Ryan Leaf. Hardly tradition. Don’t even try and bring your defense crap here. Again, that’s been the last 5-6 years. While BYU on the other hand is known for what? QB factory, winners, and top 10 offenses nearly every year since the 70’s. QB or not we have more successful players who had, and are having, VERY successful careers in the NFL.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll catch myself

I put “Tradition has zero to do with length of time”: only to follow it up with the definition. What I was meaning to put was tradition has zero to do with just being around for a long time. It has to do with being around for a long time and being very seuccesful for a long time. 40 years of success is a long time, 5 is not.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What are you looking for exactly?

Do you really want to compare NFL players who “are having VERY successful careers in the NFL”?

BYU starters (based on NFL.com):
Keisel
Tahi
I think Coats is injured, but we’ll count him because he started 6 games.
I’ll even throw in Poppinga, because he’s started periodically the last few seasons, even though he only got 3 starts this year and has been relegated to second string.

So that’s 4.

Utah starters:
A. Smith
Sean Smith
Steve Smith
Fanene
Gross is injured, but has started every game for the past 7 years and started the first 9 this year.
M. Kemoeatu is injured, but has started 90% of games the past 4 years.
C. Kemoeatu
Pouha
Sims started the last 3 games, but that doesn’t seem like enough to count him.
Weddle

So that’s 9. Yeah, way to be successful in the NFL.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 25, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Again I say, reread my comment

You’re missing the “had, and are” part.

I love that you left out Collie, the would be rookie of the year if it weren’t for Harvin. It makes sense though why you’d leave him out… he dusted Weddle (who finished the 2008 season on the 2nd worst secondary in the NFL), Smith, and McCain in every game they played against each other in college.

btw, you missed:
Hoke (starter)
Kehl (regular rotation)
Denny (starter)

That reminds me! Remember that MNF game this year that Sean Smith got absolutely juked on?! They replayed that like 10 times… then I rewound it another 5 times laughing and laughing!

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong again.

Hoke hasn’t started a single game this year, and started only 5 games the past 5 years. That’s not a starter. Collie started 2 of 10 games, and none of the last two, so if he’s rookie of the year the committee needs to watch more games. Not a starter. There are two Denneys who played at BYU (John and Ryan). Neither of them has started a game this year. In fact, John’s never started and Ryan started 13 games in the past 5 years.

Of course, if we’re including “regular rotation” like Kehl, then Utah has 3 more (Soliai played in 8 games, McCain in 10, Sims in 10 and started the last 3). But okay, I’ll give you Kehl. So the score is 5 to 12.

And you said “having”. Which of those 4 are you counting as currently having VERY successful careers? Gross is the highest-paid offensive lineman in the history of the NFL, Sean Smith is starting as a rookie, Steve Smith is a guaranteed HOF player. Anybody on your current list going to the HOF?

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 25, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

...and that's just current players

The list really seperates itself when we go with former players.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Go ahead.

Let’s see the full list of starters. How about we say any player that started more than 75% of his games in the NFL? Let me know when you’re finished.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 25, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Deal

Young
McMahon
Lewis
Tate
Kozlowski
Wilson
Sikahema
Jolley
Morris
Mili
Oates
Johnson

Just to name the ones off the top of my head. I’m at work, I don’t have time to do more than a minute post.

Not to mention coaches:
Reid
Holmgren
Billick

Oh, and a quick side note, we’ve had a player in the Super Bowl 26 out of the last 33 played.

Let’s see yours…

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Off the top of my head:

Larry Wilson
Manny Fernandez
Marv Bateman
Norm Chow
Scott Mitchell
Kevin Dyson
Luther Ellis
Jamal Anderson
Mike Anderson
Bob Trumpy
Roy Jefferson

Of course, I was nice enough to both BYU and Utah for you, so when you get home from McDonald’s go ahead and run the progression for me. Go all the way back to the beginning. I’ll bet you’ll be surprised.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 25, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you seriously put Chow on there?

He never played in the NFL… nor did he have a very successful career as a coach (3 years, then fired). Besides it’s commical that you’d include him when apparantly the records and accomplishments AND tradition he set for BYU you completely disregard.

Let me go down your list….
who?
who?
who?
never played
who?
hardly
I’ll give you this one
and this one
who?
who?

I think you missed SUCCESFUL part.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Rivalry Week is Here

I love it. Big Brother vs. Little Brother. Arrogance Cougars vs. Humble Utes. LaVell vs. Ronny Mac. Good times are here.

We’ve even begun the round of Ute reminders that all Cougars should remember the LDS leaders who graduated from Utah as if that has something to do with the traditions of NCAA football programs.

Love it. 6 days and counting!

by heyjoe! on Nov 23, 2009 10:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The fact that our church leaders are Utes has about as much to do with the football rivalry . . .

. . . as “living right off the field” does. Does make me wonder, if BYU wins by living right off the field, what were Max and the Cougars doing before last year’s Holy War? Smoking cigars, getting wasted and hanging out with hookers? I mean, if you win when you live right off the field, the converse must be true as well, right? ;-)

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 23, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Displaced

In all the banter of rivalry week, it unsettles me more than anything, those who actually believe how ones lives determines the outcome of games.

No Cougar or Ute honestly believes this. And neither should you. Let it go man. It’s not real. Bringing prophets into football banter and dialogue is ugly – and I’ve only ever heard it coming from one direction.

Talk smack. Have fun. But try to let go of the “what school did your prophet graduate from?” line. It doesn’t really have a place in football. Individual players expressing the idea that they feel that living “right” helps them to be better in all of life’s pursuits, sports or otherwise, does not mean that player believes the outcome of football contests is decided on high. Let that go.

Your first response is actually quite good if you remove the prophet talk. It’s typical Ute comebacks, but it’s got some slices of originality. It basically says all of your success is recent with very little tradition, but, hey, that’s something to build on.

LaVell was an Aggie. Grad degrees from Utah don’t count.

by heyjoe! on Nov 24, 2009 7:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Grad degrees certainly count.

Lavell was an Aggie and a Ute before he was a Cougar. And he’s your entire tradition.

And religion is part of the Holy War. It always has been and always will be. When by BYU friends tell me things like “All of the Utes I know except you left the church” or “If you were a good Mormon, you would have gone to BYU” or “All Mormon kids want to go to BYU, but if they can’t get in or have unresolved sins they go to the U” (all things people in my ward have actually said to me at some point), I like to have the Prophet card (actually, the last three Prophets and most of their first presidencies) to play in those situations. I certainly don’t believe how the fans are living makes a difference, but there are certainly fans of your side that do.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LaVell

We accept all Aggies as adopted Cougars.

Drop the religion talk bro. It’s ugly. And it makes those who use it look ignorant. Find some originality or stop posting. We want good smack, not repetition of “What school did the LDS prophet go to?” You can’t even stop repeating that line in this same thread. Let it go, or slip back over to that other SB site for the crass.

Grad degrees from Utah don’t count. BYU rejects their accredidation.

by heyjoe! on Nov 24, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I grew up an aggie and I reject your adoption.

And how does the religion talk make anyone look ignorant? Unless of course you didn’t know it before. As for “letting it go”, I don’t think I’ll be doing that. You’re the one who focused on it and it’s clearly bothering you, so I think it seems like a winner. The fact that you pulled out a minor side comment in a very long post just reaffirms my belief that this fact about the church really bothers most BYU fans because it crushes their belief that everyone who went to the U is immoral and spiritually inferior.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

what do you have against the Aggies...

A perfect example of a sore loser! Can’t stick to his alma mater so he goes to a “winning” program. Let me guess, you’ve always been a fan…. since 2004?

by vaughnzipper on Nov 24, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I went to the U because I was pre-med.

Not the sort of thing you go to Utah State to study if you can go to the U on scholarship. And I started in 1999, so I’ve been a fan of Utah since then.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Displaced

DisplacedUte – “reaffirms my belief that this fact about the church really bothers most BYU fans because it crushes their belief that everyone who went to the U is immoral and spiritually inferior.”

Your Inferiority Complex is self-projected and imaginary regarding that quote above. Nobody cares about Displaced Ute’s religion/spirituality, especially regarding BYU/Utah football. You’re placing your spirituality and what someone might think about that into the middle of a football conversation? Seriously? Do you really believe anyone honestly cares about that? The Little Brother hating Big Brother because our football tradition is real and powerful and cool is sad enough. But to actually believe that BYU fans care or even consider what Displaced Ute’s spirituality is – man, you are the poster boy for “My Imagination Has Replaced Any Logic in My Life.” It’s really sad. Probably the saddest thing about this rivalry.

LaVell called me and he has decreed that all Aggies are welcome in his stadium. He has also mailed his masters from the U to Brian Johnson in hopes Brian can use it to do something more than blog on the DesNews.

by heyjoe! on Nov 24, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Those quotes are from actual BYU fans telling me that they're better because they went to BYU.

And of course, it’ll happen again this week when some BYU player will point out how much better people who go to BYU are.

And you keep fighting me about it, so obviously it struck a chord. Having trouble keeping up your smug self-superiority knowing our Prophet is a Ute?

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BYU fans who say those things are wrong.

Utah fans who say ignorant things against BYU fans or Mormons are wrong.

I’m a BYU fan, and I absolutely hate this aspect of the rivalry, going both directions. It gets really ugly really fast, and I wish it didn’t. I don’t mind some good smack talk, but a lot of this stuff really takes the fun out of it for me.

And I honestly think BYU fans who say those types of things are the exception, not the rule (and I would say the same about Utah fans who say things I find objectionable). They just happen to be more vocal.

by holly96 on Nov 24, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

fyi, most did their graduate studies at the Y.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 24, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

According to Joe, graduate studies don't matter.

And you’re wrong anyway. Hinkley’s only earned degree was from the U (he has “honorary” doctorates from the U, BYU, USU, Westminster, Weber State, and SUU). No “graduate studies” whatsoever. Eyring, of course, went to the U (no studies at the Y). Faust went to the U for both his BA and his JD (no studies at the Y). Monson is the only one I can think of (MBA at BYU).

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Please stop

Displaced Ute. You’re embarrassing yourself. No one really cares about this prophets/degrees/religion stuff in the rivalry. Talk about your Ute tradition. Talk about something that football fans really care about. Say something funny. Say anything logical.

Let’s summarize your lines:
BYU fans think I’m spiritually inferior, so I hate them.
Let me cite the graduate degrees of various recent LDS leaders.
Joe doesn’t believe in graduate studies.

Inferiority Complex.

Brian Johnson just called. He wants to interview you for his blog.

by heyjoe! on Nov 24, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually don't hate most of the BYU fans I know.

Heck, I called two of them to be in my elder’s quorum presidency (two cougars and a UNLV rebel).

But if you want to talk football, I think Utah is a classier program than BYU because we run the ball more. Obviously passing the ball means you’re trying to show up your opponent, and champions win with running and defense.

;-)

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

for finally saying something we all can laugh at…wait, we’ve been doing that all day.

Vanquish the Foe, a BYU Cougars blog at SB Nation

by Layton on Nov 24, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Happy to help lighten your day.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait, who's had a 1,000 yard rusher 5 years in a row? Not Utah.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 24, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That was a joke.

But if you want to compare, compare rushing totals (not individuals). The last three years are available on ncaa.org

2009 (so far): Utah – 176 ypg; BYU – 149.73 ypg
2008: Utah – 156.46 ypg; BYU – 134.38 ypg
2007: Utah – 167.46 ypg; BYU – 144.38 ypg

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Whittingham

Will always be a Cougar alum no matter how long he’s stuck in Utah. Treat him well Utes. Treat your Cougar Coach well.

by heyjoe! on Nov 23, 2009 10:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

As long as you treat your Ute coach (Lavell) the same way.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 23, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Elders Quorum

Displaced Ute. You are the reason we Cougars sometimes actually feel a little genuine superiority. It’s so hard to feel anything but pity.

I’m still laughing about that Elders Quorum comment. An all-time Ute classic. Football? No. Let’s talk EQ counselors.

Siggghhhh…I could never get this stuff back home in LA.

I knew LaVell lacked class. All that passing.

by heyjoe! on Nov 24, 2009 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad you liked the EQ comment. It was a response to your claim that I "hate" BYU fans. I don't have problems with BYU fans and spend much of my week hanging out with the two of them in my presidency.

We can talk football if you want. I think BYU will win if Anae swallows his pride and relies on Harvey to run the ball down Utah’s throat. Our run D has been suspect. But if our run D can keep harvey out of the end zone for the first Q then I think Anae will abandon the run and put the ball in Max’s hands. If that happens I think Max does what he does in every big game (including OU this year) and starts making mistakes and throwing picks. Our pass D is on par with last year’s, even without our three NFL players, and I think your OL is not as strong as it was last year.

On the other side of the ball I think the opposite has to happen. Wynn has to get the intermediate and long-range passing going against your secondary. BYU’s secondary is usually the weak link in their D, and this year is no different. If we can get the long passing game going it will open up running lanes for Wide.

So I think the strategies for this game will actually be opposite for both teams. Utah needs to pass to set up the run against BYU’s good DL and LB corps; BYU needs to run to take the pressure off Max and allow him to make only the passes he needs to make.

On defense I expect you’ll see a lot of blitzing/pressure from both teams. Utah will do it to force mistakes out of Max, BYU will do it because they have a young QB and they’ll want to confuse him.

I actually think this year looks like a Bizzaro Holy War, where Utah will pass a lot and BYU will run a lot. We’ll see how it turns out. My prediction is Utah 34 – BYU 31 (just because I love that score). ;-)

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It speaks!

by vaughnzipper on Nov 24, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well said

It’s nice to actually be talking football. Your insight, I believe, is spot on. Harvey Unga may be the key to the game, but he also ran for over 100 yards last year in a loss, while in 2007 he ran for more than 150 yards in a win. Tough to say he’s the deciding factor… Unga, unfortunately, won’t be 100 percent (his ankle is in shambles) and that’s a big blow to the offense.
Even with Unga running for over 100 yards las year, the fourth quarter crumble can be placed squarely on Hall’s shoulders and timely great defense by Kruger and Johnson. That game was really close going into the 4th, but then it all when down hill when Max became flustered.
Fortunately for BYU, they are using far more weapons this year than last, and like you said, Utah’s run D has been sketchy. The passing game is spreading the wealth to Pitta, George, Jacobson, Chambers, Hafoka and Ashworth, and JJ DiLuigi and Kariya are running pretty well in place of Unga. That’s a lot of weapons for anybody to contain (although TCU did a heck of a job)…
As for Wynn, I’ve been very impressed with his mid-to-long passes. He’s a great deep-ball thrower already, and that scares me. But, if you look at where BYU’s gotten torched this year, it hasn’t necessarily been the secondary, but big plays at the line of scrimmage from Florida St. and TCU, with the obvious exception of the game against the Aztecs in San Diego.
In a rivalry like this, I have to give the edge to the more experienced players, and that’s BYU offense.
Just like every non-BCS qualifying year this should be a close game. Both teams know each other so well and are playing at a “really high level” right now.

Vanquish the Foe, a BYU Cougars blog at SB Nation

by Layton on Nov 24, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's too bad Unga's not healthy.

Unga is one of my favorite BYU players, despite the history (or maybe because of it). The kid is a gamer and has been from the moment he stepped on campus, traitor or not. I hope he recovers well.

If Unga isn’t healthy your team gets a lot less dangerous. Tonga is good because Unga is behind him. I haven’t been impressed by DiLuigi in the four games I’ve seen (OU, TCU, AF and FSU), but admittedly those are the toughest defenses BYU has seen this year. Hafoka has been running okay in backups, but I wouldn’t trust him to carry the team the way Unga can (and might need to).

I don’t know if Wynn will be as accurate on the short passes as Cain was, but our receivers made a living the first 8 games of catching short throws from Cain (since that’s all he threw) and turning them into big gains.

My big concern, if Unga’s not healthy, is Pitta. Your receivers are average (no Collies in the group right now), but Pitta is a terror. Sean Smith covered him very well last year, but he was pretty clearly injured, and we don’t have a Sean Smith this year. I expect Robert Johnson will have to shift over to cover him, or maybe they double him with Sly and Dale and leave RoJo in the middle playing deep center. If Unga and Pitta are both playing well then BYU is tough to stop, because if you double Pitta you have to expect your DL/LB to stop Unga on their own, a difficult proposition.

I actually think this game has the potential to be a shootout the likes of which we haven’t seen in a while. I don’t think BYU’s secondary can stop Wynn and Reed/Brooks and I don’t think Utah has the LBs to stop Unga. Again, this might be Bizzaro Holy War where Utah is throwing all game and BYU is running.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 24, 2009 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

very good

Insightful. Up until Air Force, I thought the same about Anae having to run the ball. I thought that was the key to beating Air Force, but Max and Anae proved me wrong. I believe there are two keys: (1) Keep the pressure off of Max. I don’t think Utah can pressure him, and that will spell trouble; (2) No turnovers. When he’s not pressured, Max usually doesn’t turn the ball over (or at least he’s carved up the defense enough to overcome a couple of jacks.

I think BYU has been priming the pump for a big home game. Air Force was a tune-up. Can’t wait.

by heyjoe! on Nov 24, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You Coug fans are funny...

You do realize that DisplacedUte was just pushing the religion thing to get a rise out of you. You bit on it hook, line, and sinker. Quit being so sensitive. All is fair in love and rivaries. I think this is the stuff that makes the rivalry great. What other rivalry can get so personal and invective? Awesome.

As for my situation, having lived on the East Coast for many a year now and having been in multiple Wards, I am finally in my first Ward where there are more Ute fans than Coug fans! It is an incredible experience. (I will readily admit that the Cougs have a substantial national following that the Utes will likely never match). I am used to watching the Holy War when I am the only Utah fan among upwards of 15-20 BYU fans in my Ward. Now it is the opposite and it is great.

One other note, for both sides of the coin, I haven’t seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but for those that don’t like the term “Holy War”, get over it. It gives our game an identity and peaks some interest nationally. Run with it. It is way better than the “Deseret First Deul” or whatever is being shoved down our throats.
(I feel the same way about the ridiculous PC crowd who are anti the “World’s Greatest Cocktail Party”. Get of your high horse and enjoy life already instead of living in a world of misery and pity.)

Holy War Football.com

by Swint on Nov 25, 2009 7:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

What's funny is that I threw it out as a minor side comment in a post . . .

. . . and Joe really latched onto it. Clearly it is one of his buttons, so I kept pushing it.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 25, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Minor side note?

It was a chunk of the first post on here… then we had to sit through your PPI about who you called to your presidency… I wish I were as holy as you.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It was 14 words out of 100, but you can call it a huge chunk if you want.

And the rest of them were all in response to Joe’s flipping out. I wish you were as holy as me too.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 25, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Huge chunk? Reread my post.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So you agree with me then?

It was a minor side comment in the section of my first post that was actually about Whittingham being a Utah man for 15 years. So basically I made one minor remark and Joe freaked out about it. I’m glad we agree.

Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.

by displacedute on Nov 25, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, well...

At least we don’t have glitter on our helmets!

And seeing as how I’m in your ward, I find it difficult to believe there are more Ute fans than Coug fans. More Ute fans than your average east coast ward? Sure, but the blue-and-white is well represented.

by NittanyCougar on Nov 25, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Boom!

Smackdown…and funny

Vanquish the Foe, a BYU Cougars blog at SB Nation

by Layton on Nov 25, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's count 'em

Of fans I know of, I can think of at least 6 U fans/families. I can think of 5 outward Y fans. I am sure there are others, but that is what I know of.

Though the Glitter is nothing to be proud of, it is not without precedent…see Ohio State (though your other hated rival). Ugh, we do need to get rid of that though, I really can’t defend it.

by Swint on Nov 26, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Do they even play footbal in Iran?

Since when does someboday not like the term “Holy War”? Yeah, it hasn’t been mentioned so don’t try to sound like a tough guy by telling us to “get over it”.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So I got banned from BlockU

for calling them frUtes, apparently they don’t like that much. I didn’t realize I was dealing with 4th graders because calling them a name actually hurt there feelings.

Because I know you frUtes are checking, if you found the term frUte offensive, and not half the stuff wolf writes about(or all the swearing by gambit, wolf, ranger, displaced, and jazz), then you’re even more pathetic than I thought. It’s sad you throw the word douchebag around 25+ times in your one post but yet i can’t call you a frUte 10 times? That my friend is called a sore loser. If you can’t have it thrown at you don’t start it.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 9:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Contradictory are we Jazzute?

For as much as you hate Bronco here’s a comment from a recent post of yours…

“BYU does get the benefit of the doubt…
And it is because of their history.

Utah doesn’t, though. Even now, we’re fighting to get into the top-25, even though our lone loss came against a top-15 team on the road by seven points.

BYU lost, at home, to an unranked team and continue to rise the rankings.

Sure, that win against Oklahoma was big…but what exactly does that do for them now? The Sooners shouldn’t be ranked and maybe if they weren’t, the Cougars wouldn’t either.

But every year, they get the benefit of the doubt. And you know, I can’t say they don’t deserve it. I mean, Bronco has produced 11-2, 11-2 and 10-3 campaigns. The last three years, his teams have gone 32-7, not bad.

You’re right, though. It’s about how you get to that 32-7. Utah, over the same span, is 30-9.

The difference? They had a meh campaign in ‘06, a decent one in ’07 and an amazing one in 2008. I’m guessing BYU fans would rather go through 8-9 win seasons for a few years if it means they get that 13-0 campaign. Which they’re not getting now. But their success of almost reaching the highest of the highs probably positions them more than most teams. And certainly feeds the media frenzy and the fans’ hopes that this year will be the year."

Way to totally discredit your rant about Bronco and BYU.

by vaughnzipper on Nov 25, 2009 9:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I can't wait for the game!!

Let me throw in my two cents and respond to this post from Vanquish the Foe…

I think of myself as a pretty typical U fan. I live in SLC, family is about evenly split between the two schools…I’ve been to most U football home games since ’03 when I started school up there…

I’m wondering how many Ute fans you polled to come up with your concrete ideas that define us…

1. Who is our coach? Kyle Whittingham. Can’t say I relate with anything else you said. Love Ronnie Mac, he made this rivalry competitive again. I love Urban Meyer, and wish him all the best. Anyone who is offered a HC job in the SEC, while getting a substantial raise and every other possible perk would be crazy not to take it. I don’t fault him at all. I don’t follow the Gators but it’s nice to see him do well. Doesn’t bother me that Kyle graduated from the Y. My opinion is that is bothers you Y fans, because he was one of your own and because he rejected the offer to coach your school. I think we can all say that it has worked out for the best. We’re quite happy with him and you are the same with Bronco…

2. We will always be Ys little brother? Ummmm… okay. Let’s relate that to family, since you bring up the label…Being that I’m the youngest in my family, I actually like my older brothers. And I don’t feel that no matter how much success I derive in life, I’ll always just be a little brother to my other siblings. Again, it sounds more like Y fans feelings of jealousy of what the Utes have done recently more than anything else.

3. Where’s the fanbase? Really? You want to talk attendance smack? Nice job building those 20K extra seats…. (clap clap) yeah, rock on!! Go team… in terms of loyalty, yeah I agree that there are some bandwagoners from the success the U has had recently, but did that not happen during the Y’s 80s run? Winning breeds loyalty with fans. State of Utah fans in general are really fickle. If the Jazz hadn’t won as much as they did, you think there is any chance we’d still have an NBA team? U fans are enjoying a remarkable run right now that is strengthening the fanbase and forging loyalty. Just win baby.

4. Where’s the tradition? Well, this is a double edged sword. We, Ute fans, love to point out the history that goes back to where none of us were alive, just for the aspect of sheer numbers. You Y fans love to go back to the Levell era… It was quite lopsided for us and then flip flopped when Levell came on the scene. I don’t think anyone can doubt that this rivalry changed almost overnight after the ’93 game.

Top 5 Ute moments?

All of last year. The irony of it all, your quest for perfection, the combacks in the Oregon State, TCU games. The rivalry game last year… which was closer than most U fans wanted to admit… it was 27-24 with the Y driving late in the third. Then Hall fumbles and you know the rest. It was especially more sweet because of how 06 and 07 went. (06 in my mind still is one of the most unbelievable games I’ve ever seen. Epic battle…)

05 Y-U rivalry game. BJ gets hurt in the game a week before rivalry week… no one gives us a chance in hell. Beck crying at the end… couldn’t be any sweeter!

The 93 U-Y game.

The 94 U-Y game.

And lastly, an image that’s burned in my brain as a young kid attending my first U-Y game,I don’t remember the year, I know that we lost…but the hit that we put on Ronnie Jenkins that knocked him out cold and caused him to fumble. I want to say that was 96 or 98. That was rad!

By the way, the 04 game wasn’t about the Y at all. It was just an all-out party the entire time as we were making history.

’03 was cold as hell, but a lot of fun as well. I went with a friend who is a Y fan and we sat in the BYU student section. You guys were great, someone even gave me hand warmers.

By the way, I’ve seen my fair share of embarrassing acts by U fans at the games.. I was in the MUSS last year and there were a group of 8 or so Y fans sitting in the MUSS and it was sad. The hatred is real.

I am sitting in the Y student section on Saturday, and I’m not concerned for my safety like I would be if it were the other way around in RES. And that’s too bad. A few U fans are out of control and give us a bad name.

Blah blah blah, I think I’m rambling now…

Saturday can’t come soon enough. Here kitty kitty kitty…

by Binjanjino on Nov 26, 2009 9:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Response to binjanjino

1-“Quite happy with Whit…?” Of course now that he has won you your BCS, but it was only two years ago when the Whit train was going to be derailed. Even his own mother told me she thought he could get the boot. Your fans filled the local talk radio stations calling for his dismissal. But now he is your man. Congrats! Interesting how quickly that has changed.

2-The little brother phrase can be compared to a joke I heard. “What do all utah and BYU fans have in common? They all applied to BYU?” Now realistically that isn’t true, but for the majority it is. Academically BYU is a far better school than the U. Naturally someone dislikes the school that doesn’t want them. Just like a little brother hates it when his older brother won’t let him play ball with him and his friends because he is too small.

3- It is not about fanbase; it is about fan mentality. Read your blogs, read the Us blogs. I rarely have read a blog where one of the first writers wasn’t some craved Utah fan writing “BYU sucks.” It is not about how great Utah is; it is about hating BYU. MANY utah fans are utah fans not because they love utah; they just hate BYU.

4- HAHAHA. Wow great memories. Top 5 moments in U history were all stemming from BYU games. You seriously just put the capstone on this article. For Utah your best moments came from beating the Y; the only thing we like about beating the U is that we can ignore you at work and church for another year.

by Couga on Nov 26, 2009 2:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs