This is for you Vaughn....

Yes, I realize I’m on your turf now.

1. Yes, Utah was rebuilding. But if we were to compare the rebuilding KW had in his hands at Utah to what Bronco inherited at BYU it would be like fixing the transmission and A/C on a car for KW but Bronco having to take a totaled car and completely rebuild it. Fair enough? Of course there’s going to be kinks in the road when you switch coaches but I think it’s pretty fair to say where Kyle had a kink Bronco had a corkscrew. Bronco wasn’t able to hit the recruiting trails talking up BYU success, there wasn’t any. KW had that in his favor, and if you’re a young athlete what do you think would look more attractive? Plus, you mention KW having to replace an OC, Bronco had to replace an OC as well. Not to mention that BM had only been in the BYU program for 2 seasons before becoming HC while KW had been in the Utah program for 10 years. That helps recruiting, team familiarity, coaching staff, etc.

2. Not sure how you can say a team that just came off a BCS bowl is equal to a team that came off a 5-6 season and lost everyone as well. It’s pretty fair to say that head to head KW’s first year was a picnic compared to BM’s.

3. Your reason for why BM is not on the same level as KW and GP is because he doesn’t have a BCS bowl. You’re telling me that if normal Joe Shmoe who didn’t know a lick about football were to rank cfb coaches based on BCS games played then KW would be ranked higher then BM. So using that same reasoning I say CP would be ranked higher than KW. Just following your lead on that one. Based on your theory you shouldn’t refute that fact, just like you’re saying I shouldn’t refute what you had to say.

4. I think you’re missing the point here. First, you had redshirts in 2004 (I know atleast two, BJ and Paul Kruger… the 2 biggest names from 2008) who played on the 2008 squad. Then throw in the fact that KW played the BCS chip while recruiting for the 2005 season. BM didn’t have that luxury.KW landed bigger recruits that year no doubt because of the success they had just had weeks earlier in Tuscon.

5. Again, a Ute brings up 1984. Show me where I mentioned it once as a bragging rite? Bronco will get his BCS bowl. It took KW 10 years to finally get one as an assistant, I predict Bronco has one in the next 4 years (10 total seasons at BYU) as a HC and he can then say he did it all on his own.

Bottom line is this: BM has done more in his time at BYU than KW has at Utah. He’s turned a Pinto into a Acura and well on his way to making it a Mercedes. Both are good coaches, my argument is that BM has done more with the talent he has and the limitations that come with recruiting kids to BYU than KW has with Utah.

Not all of KW’s success comes from Meyer but then again it wasn’t until last year that we actually got to see what KW could do. One parting note. Bronco has 2 QB’s that were Gatorade POY’s, KW has… Terrance Cain? Not the best start.

Recruiting: I just went over to Rivals.com and looked at the signing classes of both Utah and BYU in the 04-08 period and this is what I found:

In 2005: Utah had a bit of an edge but most of it was a flurry of 2 star recruits
Utah:
2*-18
3*-5
4*-1
BYU
2*-12
3*-3
4*-1

I’ll give you 2006 Utah won that one easily
Utah:
2*-15
3*- 9
4*- 1
BYU:
2*-21
3*-5
4*-0

But after a MWC title, BYU closed the gap in 2007
Utah:
2*- 17
3*- 8
4*- 0
 BYU:
2*-13
3*- 10
4* -1

Jump to 2008 and BYU out recruits us again
Utah:
2*-5
3*-9
4*-1
BYU:
2*-12
3*-9
4*-1

As you can see, the gap wasn’t all as big as you think Vaughn. KW played the BCS win card but BM had one card KW never did or ever will: BYU’s big name and long history (i.e. Lavell Edwards legacy). Even though the monopoly isn’t really in their favor as much as it was in the past, BYU still has dibs on several high class LDS talent (look no further than your new QB Jake Heaps). Any advantage we had in 2005-06 was quickly decimated when you guys beat us in 2007-08 signing classes (two strait MWC titles will do that ).

2004 players: You argue that BJ and Paul Kruger were two of the biggest names in 2008. I won’t argue that point, what I do argue is that when Urban Meyer recruited them they hadn’t reach their full potential: B. Johnson was a two star QB who had only received offers from two other schools, And as I said before, he had only done minor mop-up duty for Alex Smith in 2004. Kruger was a two star kid as well, but even more important is that he was redshirted that year and thus didn’t play one down in 2004 (plus, he was gone for two years) Yes, Urban Meyer recruited them, but it was Kyle’s staff that coached them into good players. Are you saying that because a decent part of BYU’s 2006 team were Gary Crowton’s boys, that means BH doesn’t deserve props for leading them to a MWC title? using that logic is just stupid .

BCS wins: I don’t have a lot of personal bias toward BH, I just call the shots how I see them. It not just Jeremy and me that think Bronco is not up to par because he lacks what KW, GP and CP have. All over the net ,writers rank BYU as the best non-BCS conference school that hasn’t been to a bowl ( a title that used to belong to TCU until last year).
  Chris Peterson is a dang good coach that I think is on KW level and beyond, the problem is his team plays in the WAC. The other difference is Peterson is a gambler. All those trick plays he used in both Fiesta Bowls could have come to bite him but that’s how college football is: the lucky ones get credit when they succeed and become goats when they fail. This is not to say CP has his stripes based solely on luck. My point is CP had to use trickery to win his BCS games. Kyle’s staff just plain dominated and out-coached Saban in the Sugar bowl. But I’m not here to discuss BSU, we’re talking about Bronco: I won’t say this again: nobody will give BM credit over KW and GP until he does what they did. It’s just a plain fact. Just as much as nobody will put LeBron in the same discussion as Kobe or Jordan until he gets rings of his own: is it fair? no but that’s just how it works.

You have to understand Vaughn, the decision to take the Utah job over the BYU job wasn’t as easy as you think. Utah had just won the BCS: no argument there, but the loss of Alex Smith, lots of seniors, and the added weight of high expectations to follow up on UM success was not easy to take. BYU wasn’t exactly a bare cupboard either , You had a good back in Curtis Brown, you had Austin Collie who even as a freshman showed tremendous talent (yes, I know he went on a mission after 2004 but you guys knew he was going to be special when he came back) but most of all ,You had QB John Beck who even though He hadn’t reached his full potential, still had more experience than Utah’s BJ.
  The bottom line is Gary Crowton was bad news, (I think both of us can agree on that one) not only did Bronco offer a new direction in coaching, he was a breath of fresh air from Crowton’s mess and whether you want to believe it or not , the expectations on his shoulders were not a big as KW at Utah. BM was hired to get BYU competitive again: he succeeded. Kyle was hired to keep up what Urban Meyer started: he didn’t succeed (at least not right away) but he got Utah back to the BCS eventually.

I admit I was stupid to bring 1984 in to the discussion, that’s your job.